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“Here the recovery feeds on logistics and transport. The priority is the networks “

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On the Europe’s energy choices “the line was dictated by the countries of the North”. On the former Ilva of Taranto “the Draghi government can succeed where all the others have failed”. More generally, the Italian steel industry “is the most sustainable in the world, already 80% of production is from electric furnaces”. The North West? “Turin is more in crisis than Genoa”. And I proposedto the social pact, “it is time to think about tax exempt tools for the participation of workers in profits”. Antonio Gozzi – at the top of the Duferco group, past president of Federacciai, president of Interconnector Energy Italia and representative of the hard to abate sectors – speak out.

Why did the Northern line prevail in Europe?
«For a media reason, I think of Greta Thunberg; and then because the Frugali have the North Sea wind that blows 3,000 hours a year and is easy to catch, Europe has deluded itself into doing everything with renewables, it is not like that ».

You argue that the objectives that the EU has set itself are risky.
«Europe is responsible for less than 8% of global emissions, industry accounts for half of that 8%. We wanted to be at the top of the class, thinking of forcing other countries to follow us, believing in this way to build a competitive advantage. It is a gamble, it is not certain that China, the USA and India will follow us with the same principles, times and methods. We have bet on measures that do not solve climate change and put enormous sectors of our industry at a strong competitive disadvantage ».

In Brussels he represented Confindustria’s energy eaters. What idea did he come up with?
«I am convinced that the Fit for 55, as it has been approved, does not come out. A series of countries, Italy and Germany in the lead, are pushing for measures that, accompanying decarbonisation policies, support sectors that would otherwise risk disappearing. Furthermore, we have to manage intra-European conflicts. Let’s think about the electric car: it strongly reduces the automotive supply chain, Italy has the primacy in the supply of internal combustion engines. With the German decision the sector of Italian mechanics is almost canceled to the advantage of those who produce electrical components ».

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Is the electric car enough to decarbonise transport?
“Private transport is also decarbonised with synthetic and fossil fuels, there are many tools, the latest diesels have a very low carbon footprint”.

Do you need technological neutrality?
«As Mao Zedong said, it doesn’t matter if the cat is black or white, the important thing is that it catches the mouse. I coordinated the hard to abate sectors for Confindustria: steel, chemicals, ceramics, paper, cement, glass and foundries. The Boston Consulting study shows that if nothing is done, these industries will die. They are worth 6-7% of GDP, 85 billion a year of added value, export 65% of production and employ 700 thousand people. With a hypothesis of Co2 between 70 and 100 euros, these sectors will have to buy certificates for 15 billion between now and 2030, 20% of their margin: it means closing or relocating. To achieve the objectives set, all technologies must be used, which presents a series of contradictions. It is impossible for Italy to pass from 0.8 Giga to 8 Giga a year of renewables ».

Minister Cingolani says we will make it.
“He says it because when he tried to say things as they are he was overwhelmed with insults. In Italy, if you objectively represent reality, you are accused of not wanting to do things. Duferco has invested in the largest rolling mill in Europe totally powered by green energy, so I can say it without being accused of rowing against it: going from 0.8 to 8 Giga is technically impossible, even by facilitating authorizations, Italy is not desert , you cannot plant wind turbines and photovoltaic panels in the Piana di Agrigento and on the Chianti hills ».

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L’offshore?
«It can be done, but it is very expensive because our depths are very deep. The paradox? Europe says that gas is destined to die, while in Belgium the environmental movement theorizes gas, protesting against wind power because it is noisy and generates problems with birds ».

Speaking of gas, the price?
“It will get worse and worse. The supply has become rarefied, the big companies no longer invest in wells because every time they do, stocks collapse on the stock market. But the only possible technology to shut down coal plants is to make a transition to gas. Turbogas plants could emit zero Co2 with carbon capture technologies, which however are not subsidized. It is nonsense, Germany will blow it up ».

Net of Ilva, the Italian steel industry is the most sustainable in the world, she says.
«80% of our steel production is from electric furnaces. The only thing that runs on gas are the reheating ovens, which cannot operate on induction because they suffer from mains voltage drops, if the temperature drops, the product breaks down. The electro-steelmakers, extraordinary buyers of biogas, are in the middle of the Po Valley, where there are hundreds of farms and livestock farms that must be biodigesters to be sustainable ».

Is Taranto a political problem?
«It will not be easy to build consensus on that operation, the Draghi government can succeed where others have failed. Taranto is fundamental for the Italian engineering industry and for the Genoa and Novi sites».

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Do you see an inflation risk?
«High, between the costs of energy, raw materials and labor. Then there is a theme of monetary policies: the countries of the North are pushing for interest rates to rise because they have pension systems based on financial income ».

NIn the North West what are the crucial sectors for decarbonising?
«Transport and logistics. In Liguria the biggest theme is the port one. The electrification of the docks signals the criticality of the networks: it is necessary to bring the energy to the docks, and then there is the power required by the large ships ».

Piedmont?
«Living through a difficult phase, Turin is more in crisis than Genoa. Liguria has a tourist attraction that allows it to look to the future with less pessimism. In Piedmont the crisis of the subcontracting of the internal combustion engine can be devastating, Italy must maintain a part of internal combustion propulsion ».

Are the GDP figures comforting?
«We have fallen more than the others and we grow more than the others. It is important to understand what the growth of 2022 will be like: if it were 4.5%, combined with that of this year it would mean exceeding 2019 “.

Draghi’s social pact?
«We need to tax the cost of labor to raise wages and start being a little innovative. Why not work on tax exempt models of employee profit sharing? A profit-sharing mechanism would help to achieve that pact between workers and entrepreneurs, promoting inclusion and productivity ”.


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