AAs head of the automobile manufacturer Audi and member of Volkswagen-Group Executive Board, Markus Duesmann is increasingly dealing with sustainability issues. Politicians, investors and customers are demanding more commitment from companies to the environment, social issues and good corporate governance, measurable in so-called ESG ratings (environment, social, governance).
WELT: Mr. Duesmann, almost every CEO says today that sustainability is a matter close to his heart. At the same time, you are forced to make many changes by the legislature. Which sustainability steps does Audi take voluntarily?
Markus Duesmann: We do a lot of things of our own free will. Two years ago we decided that we will phase out combustion technology in 2033. In doing so, we are ahead of the legislation in Europe. The trends in North America and China towards electric mobility confirm our decision. We have also introduced an ESG rating and our employees have an employment guarantee until 2029, which is also an important aspect.
WELT: When it comes to electromobility, you are demanding technological clarity from politicians. Others, on the other hand, want openness to technology. What would it mean for Audi if the combustion engine ban in the EU did not come after 2035?
Duesmann: We will invest 28 billion euros in new products, vehicle plants, supply chains and recycling over the next few years. It is important to know which technology to invest in. This clarity is also important for our customers; the vehicle is a major investment for them. Clarity takes away the uncertainty. Nevertheless, I believe that e-fuels, which are much discussed, will play a role in expanding the existing fleet of CO2-to be neutral. They are the only technology we know of to reduce CO in cars that are already sold today2-to make neutral.
WELT: Within the group, your sister brand Porsche takes care of that. Could there be an initiative from Audi?
Duesmann: In Chile, Porsche is showing with a model system that this technology works – if you go to places where there is a lot of wind or solar energy. We don’t want to make this an issue in every brand. Audi relies entirely on electromobility. However, we will still be offering combustion engines and hybrid models by 2033.
WELT: This is how you are approached by the EU emission standard Euro 7, which is intended to make the air cleaner. Why is the industry fighting back?
Duesmann: The timing needs urgent adjustment. Having all vehicles converted by 2025, as the EU Commission wants, not only overwhelms us, but also the registration authorities. This is not practicable. It would massively jeopardize employment in Germany. That’s why we’re asking for a revision.
WELT: Would you otherwise no longer be able to offer half of the product portfolio?
Duesmann: Not that, but a significant part of the portfolio would be affected. Some vehicles that are at the end of their product life cycle will no longer be converted. New models already have Euro 7 technology anyway.
WELT: The EU Commission is also working on new regulations for recycling. In the future, for example, they will have to use recycled material in batteries. Do you need these rules?
Duesmann: Any material that is recycled does not need to be regenerated. This not only affects the battery, but all plastics, surface materials, aluminum, steel. We have had several initiatives on secondary aluminum, steel product reuse, plastics recycling and more recently battery recycling over the years. There is a pilot plant in Salzgitter for this, which is operated by the VW Group. We want to be able to recycle 100 percent of the car if possible.
WELT: How far away are you from such a circular economy?
Duesmann: We started a pilot project called Material Loop, in which we look at component by component: How could the car be disassembled, how can the materials be separated and reused? That is why we are making intensive efforts to be able to recycle more and more materials from end-of-life vehicles in automobile production over the next few years.
Politicians, investors and customers are demanding more commitment to the environment from car companies
Quelle: Getty Images
WELT: Europeans see themselves as pioneers when it comes to climate protection and turn up their noses at coal-fired power plants in China. You were just there: is this attitude still justified?
Duesmann: I think we have to be careful that China doesn’t overtake us on this issue. China is moving at great speed and has also discovered sustainability for itself. We always thought that the development of electric mobility in China would be slow. Now, however, more than 50 percent of new passenger cars sold in the smaller vehicle segments may already be fully electric by 2025 and in the premium segment by 2026. I think it’s important for Europe to set itself ambitious goals. This creates the pressure to further develop the right technologies. China has a clear industrial policy, as does the USA, with the Inflation Reduction Act. I would like to see this kind of clarity in Europe too.
WELT: The Chinese competition left you behind when it came to electromobility. There are cheaper and technologically better cars there that sell more often than Audi’s. How do you intend to catch up?
Duesmann: We have a good chance of making it. In the next two years, we will launch ten new all-electric models worldwide. These vehicles will take us a lot further. It’s impressive how quickly the Chinese have developed their cars. Of course we take these competitors very seriously. We have a strong brand and our cars have many qualities that we will carry into the future.
WELT: In Germany, your business is linked to the so-called traffic turnaround. What is your personal mobility behavior like? Do you want to drive anywhere and fly in a private jet?
Duesmann: I use all available means of transport, including the train. I am also a passionate cyclist and I use my motorcycles for weekend tours. We work a lot digitally, which saves a lot of travel. If there is no other way, I will fly. By the way, I also like to drive fast when the freeway is free.
WELT: Then a speed limit would be a fun restriction for you – although you have spoken out in favor of it?
Duesmann: I wasn’t advocating it, just saying it would be an option if we ran out of oil. But no matter where you travel in the world: everyone knows that Germany is a free country – and the speed limit is a symbol of this freedom. Instead, we should rather choose intelligent solutions to ensure a better flow of traffic. That would be the bigger lever to reduce emissions.
WELT: In Audi’s carbon footprint, you assign the CO2-Emissions from the cars you have already sold are not sufficient. And neither does the supply chain. When are you going to release the whole picture, the so-called Scope 3?
Duesmann: We have internal calculations for this, but there are still no standards as to what exactly should be recorded. We would like to see a clear rule for this so that the figures can be compared within the industry. We are already working intensively with our suppliers to significantly reduce their emissions.
WELT: How does it fit into this strategy that Audi is just getting into Formula 1?
Duesmann: Formula 1 has decided that by 2030 CO2-to become neutral. And from 2026, when we get on board, the regulations will change significantly. There will then be a higher proportion of electrification, and the smaller internal combustion engine will run on 100 percent e-fuels. If you look at Formula 1 as a development platform for e-machines and batteries with high performance and combustion engines with the highest level of efficiency, then society will also benefit significantly.
WELT: So politics and industry are trying to get customers to buy electric cars – and you’re sticking with combustion engines in Formula 1?
Duesmann: This is not a contradiction. We will still be manufacturing combustion engines ourselves by 2033, and the latest and final generation of our hybrids will be on the market in 2026. Motorsport at this level will still need liquid fuels for a while because of the higher energy density. For this we use e-fuels from sustainable energy sources and no longer from crude oil. Such e-fuels will also play an important role for society in the future.