In the video above you can see: Psychologist in conversation – “Grey divorce revolution” – so many long-term marriages break up for 3 reasons
FOCUS online: The number of late separations is increasing; you and your ex-wife also went your separate ways after 20 years. Could the relationship have been saved?
Jörn: That’s a really difficult question. Looking back, what would we ideally have done differently, better…?
Maybe talk more?
Jörn: We have this. We talked a lot and always discussed everything. No taboos, no fuss about it.
So it’s not the classic pattern: She wants to reflect and analyze, he stays silent?
Jörn: Quite the opposite. Finding the right words is my job. But formulating something and living something are two different things. I know communication is often considered the key. But I’m afraid we’re making it too easy for ourselves when we say that many relationships can be saved through more intensive conversations.
If words themselves couldn’t bridge the lack of closeness – could one problem perhaps have been the tone?
Jörn: I know what you’re getting at, but – no – we haven’t argued much, even though we certainly haven’t pulled together as much recently as we did before. The fact is: We would really have loved to stay together. When our then eleven-year-old son said one day at the kitchen table, “By the way, I have no problem with you breaking up,” I was shocked. Anton simply stated what had been in the room for a long time, but which I didn’t want to accept until the end. Children are like seismographs, they absorb everything. Moods, but of course also snippets of conversation like “What if…” that had occasionally occurred in the last two years of the marriage. Back then, Heidi sometimes said that I should finally be honest. I don’t want this life anymore. “You have trouble letting go, that’s why,” she said.
In fact, separations are more often caused by women. Are women braver?
Jörn: Looking back, there was a point a long time before I moved out where a breakup was inevitable. It’s possible that women tend to be clearer on this point. At a certain point, Heidi was more straightforward, more forward-oriented. It was exactly as she said: I couldn’t let go – even though she hadn’t been the Heidi I wanted to be with with all my heart for several years. Exciting, because when I think about it, I think that the Heidi from back then could possibly have continued to live with the Jörn from back then. Maybe the separation would never have been an issue for her. But when the whole thing came up at my impulse, Heidi wanted to deal with it – while Jörni chickened out.
Why was Heidi no longer the one you wanted to be with? What happened back then, ten years ago?
Jörn: What probably happens in many marriages: We became parents. After Anton was born, my old Heidi gradually became smaller.
Because the child came first for your wife?
Jörn: For me too, the child was and is my top priority. Believe me: I am one of the most convinced dads in this world. My son is number one and, even at 1.86 meters square, is still my baby. I know you hear it again and again that men make fun of the fact that they are no longer number one since the offspring have arrived. Such hierarchical thinking would never have occurred to me in my dreams. Anyway: Anton is 0.0 percent to blame for what happened. I thought it was great to see that Heidi and I obviously had very similar feelings about our child. The point was different: where was my passionate, heartfelt wife?
It’s nothing unusual that togetherness suffers when a baby comes…
Jörn: True, that certainly wouldn’t have been a problem for a while. But we just didn’t manage to find each other again. Not even with professional help.
What did you do?
Jörn: We went to marriage counseling. With all due respect for the attempt at the psychological approach: I would have expected more. What came was the number with the great massages, the delicious food, the beautiful films. I thought: Is she kidding us? We had tried all of that for a long time. It was incredibly painful to admit to myself what Heidi and Anton had obviously long since understood: Heidi and Jörni, the couple that had met when they were 17 and 18, no longer existed.
Was this realization a door opener, something like the first step into a different life?
Jörn: Ultimately yes, although Claudia, who I then met and have been with for eight years now, played no role in the separation. Our sons played soccer together and I coached them. For me, Claudi was initially some kind of player’s mother. And then, when I moved out of Heidi’s, she became a player mother who was single – and therefore on the market. Like me, Claudi had been through a breakup and knew a lot of what I had been through firsthand. We both made sure of one thing from the beginning: that we were Claudi and Jörni – and that we would stay. To date it has worked extremely well. Incidentally, it seems similar with Heidi. She is also in a relationship again and happy.
So was the separation ultimately the best thing for everyone involved?
Jörn: This view is too shallow for me. I really wished I could have gotten along with Heidi. But now it’s good as it is. The last thing I want is a “ranking”: This relationship is better or that one. On the other hand, I see no reason to acknowledge positive developments. After all, you can look at the separation like this: I grew up shortly before my late 40s.
You have to explain that. How do you define adulthood?
Jörn: Peace has returned to me. I am complete now. Why is that? I once explained it to a friend like this: an important facet was added to my personality that was previously missing.
And did the new partnership help you with that?
Jörn: Claudi is completely different from Heidi, in that sense: yes. Heidi and I were pretty similar, both very emotional, spontaneous. Claudi, on the other hand, is rational, reflects, looks at things calmly, sleeps on it for two or three nights before making a decision. Current example: We want to go to Paris and she is already meticulously planning what we will do there: Sacré-Cœur, Louvre, the whole ballet. If it were up to me, we would let ourselves go a lot more. I love just sitting in the sidewalk cafe and looking at the people.
Isn’t that difficult when your partner has a completely different idea of traveling?
Jörn: Not at all. Through them I get to know many things in life in a completely new way. Claudi has a different basic character. That does something to me, to my life. I discover things about myself that were previously foreign to me. Opposites attract – I think there really is something to that. And I think you can think about it further: Not only do opposites attract each other, they can also inspire each other in the long term and ensure development.
In your opinion, doesn’t “birds of a feather like to mix” fit well?
Jörn: Oh yes, that can be great too. Let’s stay calm about traveling and what I experienced with Heidi. A lot going on, a lot of adventure. Sometimes we were total beach loungers, sometimes we were excessive bathers, just as we felt like it. Again: I don’t know if comparing makes you happy. It helps me to see what life has given me and how enriching it is to accept the challenge.
The challenge of a late breakup? It almost sounds like you’re advising this step?
Jörn: How could I do that? Honestly, there is nothing more beautiful than a golden wedding anniversary. But people should know that it’s not just bad to break up, but that you can also receive gifts. In every respect, by the way, speaking for me. Because Heidi and I didn’t just stay in touch. We even became friends.
More on the topic of separation:
Jutta* (61, clerk) separated from her husband after 40 years. When it became clear that he was staying in the house, she quickly went back to where she had lived until shortly before her marriage: to the teenage room in her parents’ house.
A separation is never easy, especially not after 20 years of marriage. She literally pulled the rug out from under the feet of the 53-year-old Hamburg media manager Sören Bauer. He is now grateful for it – because it probably saved his life.