“There will be no security with this Russia”

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“Putin’s war and Germany’s role – how undiplomatic can you be, Ms. Baerbock?” was the question in Caren Miosga’s (54) program on Sunday evening. In fact, it took 14 minutes for the moderator to ask the first specific question regarding Baerbock’s behavior. Beforehand, she gave the Foreign Minister a surprising amount of space. Annalena Baerbock (43, Green Party) talked about her experiences in Ukraine, how she perceives Putin and his warfare and that she always resolutely opposes Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov because otherwise too many of his “lies” would remain in the public eye.

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+++ All developments on the war against Ukraine in the live blog +++

And also that she could not understand the Pope’s statement that Ukraine needed the courage to raise a white flag. “Sometimes I wish I could go to Ukraine with them,” she said.

Pope Francis recommends Ukraine have the courage to raise a “white flag”

“When you see that you are defeated, that things are not going well, you have to have the courage to negotiate,” the pope told Swiss television.

What: Reuters

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But then Miosga asked the first question that was really aimed at Baerbock’s political behavior. “I would like to find out why they communicate the way they do,” said the moderator. What was meant was that Baerbock had regularly emphasized in the past how close the situations in Ukraine and the Gaza Strip were to her, even as a mother of two. “In your public appearances, it is noticeable that you speak with unusual emotion,” said Miosga. “Do you consciously allow these feelings?”

Baerbock seemed visibly moved by this question and had to swallow. “In both moments I couldn’t help it,” she said. That’s just their kind of politics. She believes that this is a good way to reach people.

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Baerbock: “If you want peace, you have to do everything for it”

“You became Foreign Minister when the illusion of a peaceful Russia had clearly long since shattered. Do you think that this realization has fully reached everyone in the government, especially in the SPD?” Miosga then asked Baerbock. The politician responded with a brief “yes” and added: “With this Russia, with this Putin Russia, there will be no security in the foreseeable future.” At this point, Baerbock also spoke out in favor of full support for Ukraine. “Anyone who wants peace must do everything to ensure that Ukraine does not lose this war.” With regard to the question about the broadcast, Germany’s role in Putin’s war was definitely clarified.

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Almost, because Miosga steered the conversation to the Taurus debate and the Chancellor’s clear no to the delivery of the cruise missiles. “Did you know he would do that?” she asked Baerbock.

This wound around a concrete answer. “We are, of course, constantly in conversation,” she replied, and then explained that the question of long-range weapons systems had already been discussed last summer – until Miosga interrupted her: “Please stick with it. Is the debate now over because the Chancellor says: ‘I am the Chancellor’?” Here, too, the Foreign Minister did not give a clear answer. The Chancellor made it clear that NATO and Germany should not become parties to the war. But: “We will discuss this together confidentially so that we can come to a decision together.”

The other guests did not challenge Baerbock

The group also remained confidential and comfortable with the other two guests. The political scientist Minna Alander and the “Zeit” correspondent in Moscow, Michael Thumann, were invited.

“How does Putin define war involvement and when does he feel provoked?” Miosga wanted to know with regard to Thumann’s rejection of the Taurus delivery. “Putin is very flexible because he just turns it the way he needs it,” he replied.

Thumann then explained how the Russian President was proceeding in his war strategy: “Putin is trying to spread maximum uncertainty.” That’s why he repeatedly hints at possibly using nuclear weapons. But according to Thumann, Putin never gets specific when making such statements. “He always leaves open what he will actually do,” said the journalist.

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The journalist also drew a comparison to German warfare. “The federal government makes the mistake of saying far too much about what exactly we actually do or what we don’t do,” said Thumann. Referring to the Taurus delivery, he asked: “Why don’t we just leave it open? Why don’t we just let them stew for a bit in Moscow?” Germany is always too quick to exclude.

According to Thumann, Germany’s reaction to Emmanuel Macron’s statement also clearly ruled out the use of ground troops in Ukraine. “Why does the Chancellor stand up and rule out things straight away?” He would not give Russia the security that Germany would not do certain things.

Baerbock refused to answer a spontaneous question

Baerbock comments on this statement that Germany does not yet have that much experience in warfare. In other countries, “psychological war games” are much more present. But here too there was no lively discussion. The show trickled along. There was no argument from the guests among themselves. The political scientist Minna Alander hardly commented and when she did, then only very briefly. Miosga also failed to create suspense with exciting questions.

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There was only one exchange of blows. When Thumann told how the German ambassador to Russia was besieged by Russian journalists during a visit to the Russian Foreign Ministry after the wiretapping scandal, Miosga Baerbock asked: “What is the boss’s answer?” leave uncertain. That’s why I’m not announcing it on German television now,” countered Baerbock. However, this short outburst was lost in a friendly laugh from Thumann and a “Yes, that’s good”.

This scene was also a representative answer to the question about the show: Nobody had to be undiplomatic that evening. Especially not Ms. Baerbock.