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As the three-day Munich Security Conference entered its last day, the Ukrainian crisis was clearly the focus of the conference. In addition to Russia, Ukraine and the United States, the protagonists of the crisis, China’s position on the Ukraine issue has also attracted much attention. Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi’s speech at the Munich conference on February 19 about defending the territorial integrity of various countries sparked a lot of speculation, with some commenting that Beijing may be pulling away from Moscow. In addition, Wang Yi’s remarks that China draws on French experience in dealing with extremists also aroused the repercussions of French public opinion. Finally, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson compared the Ukraine crisis to the Taiwan issue. How comparable are the two? FM Radio interviewed Mr. Antoine Bondaz, an expert on China and the Korean Peninsula from the French Foundation for Strategic Studies, who attended the meeting in Munich.
Faguang: Hello Mr. Pendaz, thank you very much for accepting the interview with Faguang. First of all, Wang Yi’s remarks in Munich on Saturday that “every country has the right to defend its own territorial sovereignty and integrity, and Ukraine is no exception” caused many comments. There are comments that this is a change in China’s position on the Ukraine crisis. What is your opinion on this?
Antoine Bondaz： I think there are many transitional interpretations of Wang Yi’s speech in Munich yesterday, because in fact Wang Yi’s speech just repeats the consistent position of the Chinese official, which is China’s consistent position on the South China Sea and other issues of sovereignty such as Taiwan. statement. There is nothing new in Wang Yi’s speech, which is not intended to support Ukraine at all. We know that since 2014, although China has continued to emphasize defending its territorial sovereignty, China has not expressed its views on the issue of Crimea being invaded. Although China has not publicly supported Russia’s aggression, the Chinese government has not condemned Russia’s aggression, nor has it expressed its views on the independent republic in eastern Ukraine. So, it can be said that China’s position is consistent, the idea that China will reinforce Russia militarily or politically is wrong, China is likely to continue as always, without comment, China is likely to face Russia Continue to remain silent in violation of international agreements and violation of Ukrainian sovereignty. I think there have been a lot of misinterpretations on Sino-Russian relations in recent weeks. Some people think that the proximity between China and Russia will lead the Chinese government to openly support Russia, which is not the case, China did not openly support Russia in 2014, Not today, and China’s silent stance should be condemned.
Faguang: In a speech in Munich, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson pointed out that if Western countries fail to abide by their commitments to support Ukrainian independence, there will be devastating consequences around the world, including for Taiwan. We know that people from all walks of life in Taiwan are highly concerned about the Ukrainian crisis and worry that Taiwan will become Ukraine’s second place. Do you think Taiwan has reason to be concerned?
Antoine Bondaz：There must be a clear distinction between the crisis in Ukraine and the crisis in Taiwan, because there is a fundamental difference between the two, because Taiwan enjoys the defense of the United States, and Ukraine does not, and I listened to Prime Minister Johnson from start to finish in Munich, and he He mentioned the Taiwan issue when talking about the relationship between the strategic security of the Indo-Pacific region and the strategic security of what he called the Euro-Atlantic region. He said that the two would influence each other. Everything will have an impact on the Euro-Atlantic region, and at this point, European countries, including France, agree. So I won’t compare Ukraine with Taiwan, not because Russia is going to invade Ukraine and China is going to invade Taiwan. However, I think it is very clear that the US withdrawal strategy in Afghanistan will affect Taiwan more directly, because the Chinese government will use this to try to make Taiwan lose confidence in the United States, trying to convince the Taiwanese that in the event of a war, the United States will not Will not intervene, etc. Therefore, I would like to stress again that the situation between Taiwan and Ukraine is very different. The United States has repeatedly pointed out and emphasized many times that once a conflict breaks out in the Taiwan Strait, the United States will definitely intervene in some way.
Faguang: Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi reiterated at the Munich Conference that China has learned from the de-radicalization experience of France and other countries on Islam and other issues. What is your comment?
Antoine Bondaz：Wang Yi’s remarks are consistent with Chinese officials, and the Chinese embassy in China has repeated similar remarks many times. This is not about direct counter-terrorism, but de-radicalization. The Chinese are referring to the de-radicalization centers that exist all over France, but here I have to point out the fundamental difference between the French de-radicalization centers and the Chinese re-education camps in Xinjiang: in France, there are no forced detention camps , there is no forced labor, let alone religious and cultural genocide, etc. The purpose of the Chinese parties is obviously to use Western practices to justify their Xinjiang policies, but these policies are often not comparable. It is clear that France’s de-radicalization policy and China’s Xinjiang policy are completely different. different.
Faguang: French President Emmanuel Macron will hold telephone talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin as planned today. Does France, as a member of the European Union and a member of NATO, have enough leverage to persuade Putin to cancel his plan to attack Ukraine?
Antoine Bondaz：In fact, France is more important to participate in the negotiations as a signatory of the “Minsk Agreement”, which is more important than its status as the EU’s rotating presidency. French diplomats in charge of European Union affairs have repeatedly stressed in recent days France’s strategy on the Ukraine crisis, which aims to offer Russia the possibility of a diplomatic solution to the crisis so that it does not end up in a situation where it has no choice but to go to war. Therefore, if Russia makes the choice of war, it is Russia’s own choice. The French side mainly expects to stress this point, stressing that a diplomatic solution to the crisis is possible. Today, however, the path out of the crisis is unclear, and the key lies in Russia, which seems to have gone too far down the path of war. That’s why, whether in Washington, in Brussels, or in Munich, and especially in Kiev, the situation is very pessimistic!
Faguang:The Ukrainian Prime Minister asked NATO to come up with a timetable for Ukraine to join NATO. However, NATO regulations stipulate that countries with border disputes are refused to be included. This should be one of the reasons why Russia has provoked disputes. How do you think NATO should respond to Ukraine’s request?
Antoine Bondaz：For now, the position of NATO and its major members is very clear. NATO did not schedule Ukraine’s accession. However, what is certain is that if Russia invades Ukraine militarily, it will strengthen the coordination among NATO member states, strengthen the defense cooperation among the Baltic states, and strengthen the needs of Russia’s neighboring countries for NATO. The Ukraine crisis has strengthened cooperation between EU countries and the United States, both on the future of Ukraine, which did not exist a few years ago. In addition, on the issue of sanctions, Ukraine also asked the EU to impose sanctions. On this issue, France’s position as the EU’s rotating presidency is to continue diplomatic negotiations.
I would like to thank Mr. Antoine Bondaz, an expert on China and the Korean Peninsula from the French Foundation for Strategic Studies, for his interview with FRF.