Deutsche Welle: Mr. Sunsburg, you said in an interview that you were not surprised by what was disclosed. why?
Sensberg: Of course I am not surprised. European intelligence agencies cooperate with the United States, and they also cooperate with other partners. They have such related interests. For example, during the Brexit period, I think our EU partners are interested in inquiring about the positions of all parties. This is also the task of the intelligence service-to transmit and obtain information. This is what they are doing.
Deutsche Welle: They cooperate with each other, but they also spy on each other’s intelligence. Isn’t this a serious breach of trust?
Sensberg: Of course, this aspect is a serious breach of trust, but if you believe that your partner will not spy on you, then this is a mistake. The partner intelligence units are also paying attention to each other’s activities. It is important to know this, and no one can be completely trusted.
Deutsche Welle: You mean, this is normal in the intelligence community. In terms of intelligence, Germany can’t even trust its closest allies?
Sensberg: This is why I have repeatedly said that we have common interests, but there is no friendship between the country and (intelligence) agencies. Friendship between people does not exist among intelligence agencies. Therefore, we have the so-called 360-degree panoramic view, and we will also take care not to allow ourselves to be spied on by partner countries.
Merkel and former Foreign Minister Steinmeier (left) are also among the targets of eavesdropping
Deutsche Welle: Is it possible for Germany to spy on France, Italy or other European partner countries with the closest relationship with the United States?
Sensberg: Our decision within the framework of our work is not to spy on partner countries, we will not spy on EU partners and US institutions. But we have common interests. We will work together, such as understanding what Russia and China are doing. But of course we realize that our partners may want to snoop on our intelligence information, so we pay attention to confidentiality.
Deutsche Welle: You mean that (Germany’s) partner countries may conduct espionage activities against Germany, but Germany will not do so against its partners?
Sensberg: We certainly don’t welcome them to do this. According to German law, if someone conducts espionage in Germany, it is of course illegal. But on the other hand, we would not believe anyone who claims that they do not engage in such activities. What we do is prevent others, including our EU partners, from espionage in Germany.
Deutsche Welle: Do you think Berlin should take action on the allegations, at least requiring (the other party) to publish this report?
Sensberg: We need to figure out what happened and where the fiber optic cables were used to invade the communication channels of our top leaders. We all need to investigate. But on the other hand, this is not something we can prohibit or prevent in advance. We must realize that the job of the intelligence service is to try to obtain information. Therefore, no one can be trusted.
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