the president Peter Aragonés (Pineda de Mar, 1982) maintains what was said: the elections will be in February 2025, not before. Confident that he will achieve approval for the budgets, he pushes to finally close the file on the judicialization of the ‘procés’ with the amnesty, pending Junts’ decision, so as to “not waste any more time.”
Do you plan to call elections when you have the budgets approved?
They will be in February 2025. It is good that the legislatures last four years. We have had budgets every year, a consensus on all the measures to deal with the drought and in the educational field, and for a national pact for mental health and for the language. I believe that citizens ask us for this stability. In a world in which perhaps what is fashionable is political polarization, I may not be fashionable, I admit, but rather for building consensus to move forward.
It seems that there has been more stability with a Government supported by 33 deputies than with the one that started, supported by 65. Do you have this feeling?
The Government that I preside over is a cohesive, solid government that shares an orientation, in a pro-independence key and along the path of negotiation, dialogue and the generation of majorities, placing democracy at the center and with an immediate objective which is that the repression ends and, therefore, the amnesty. It is a Government that has dedicated itself to bringing Catalonia up to date, the figures prove it. The objective is that the next legislature, also coinciding with a complex Spanish legislature, but which must be able to last four years, reaches an agreement on the political future of the country, which includes pro-independence and non-independence supporters so that together we can decide under what conditions a referendum can be held.
This Government that has dedicated itself to bringing Catalonia up to date, the figures prove it
It refers to the clarity agreement, but it has not met the schedule and has not garnered new support.
I won’t throw in the towel, I think it’s the way. How else are we to resolve the political conflict? With repression or with politics? It is with negotiation, at a table that has been ignored for a long time, but now everyone wants one. So it wasn’t that bad. We were very successful. The PSC said that amnesty was impossible and now [los socialistas] They are processing it in Congress, and Junts said that this negotiating was going to be fooled, and they sit at a table. If this has happened, then in a few months they will say that the way is the clarity agreement. I am absolutely convinced because it is the reasonable and responsible way.
This week the Supreme Court has accused Carles Puigdemont and Ruben Wagensberg for terrorism in the case of Tsunami Democràtic. Are the judges winning this battle?
This battle will be won by democracy and repression will end. That is why it is important that we can have the amnesty law as soon as possible, it is the tool we have and we should not waste it. We have found a decision from the Supreme Court that is an absolute aberration from a legal point of view, it is a political decision. Every time we have taken a step forward in the negotiation, there is an attempt to activate more tools of repression. Because where conservative Spanish nationalism, which is also present in part of the judicial leadership, is comfortable, is in conflict, and also when it comes to the use of force, because they have more. When it comes to the use of reason and votes, that is when it is not comfortable, because this is where our project can advance.
The accusation of Puigdemont and Wagensberg is an absolute aberration, it is a political decision
As the amnesty law is drafted right now, does it include Puigdemont?
I am absolutely convinced that it is.
Are the conditions in place for an agreement to be reached on the amnesty law before Thursday?
They already occurred a few weeks ago, when it was not approved by Congress. The proposal we have is solid and robust and must allow us to move forward, being aware that probably in some cases, due to the boycott of certain judicial bodies, it will take us a little longer to apply it, but it will be applied.
There is talk of pardons or changing the law of criminal procedure as solutions outside the law itself.
We have an opportunity which is the amnesty law, let’s not cheapen it. Let’s focus on it, let’s approve it as soon as possible and let its application begin. Then we will see if other measures are necessary.
Alberto Núñez Feijóo studied the amnesty before rejecting it and proposed a conditional pardon for Puigdemont. What is your opinion?
If the PP wants to advance in the resolution of the political conflict and has a commitment, more favorable to dialogue and agreements, it has the opportunity to vote in favor of the amnesty law. Ultimately, this recognition shows that all their opposition to the amnesty is more out of partisan interest in wearing down the Sánchez Government and trying to get four votes from the PSOE, than out of conviction. If I were a PP voter I would be very angry, it is very evident that they are manipulating even their own electorate.
The Government is not going through its best moments after the general elections. Do you think there will be enough stability to continue in this negotiating framework?
There will be stability if the agreements are fulfilled. For my part, there will be, it will advance.
Sánchez will have stability if he fulfills the agreements. For my part, there will be
And for the rest?
You’ll have to ask them. We do not want a Government of PP and Vox, nor for their scarecrow to be the excuse for immobility. We have the situation for the amnesty and to advance on material issues for the citizens of Catalonia.
Do you have the proposal agreed between PSOE and Junts for Catalonia to assume jurisdiction over immigration?
It was a principle of general political agreement, without any type of detail. I want all the powers, including immigration, but not to decide who to expel, but to include everyone, to better integrate and to provide a good reception.
I want powers in immigration, but not to decide who to expel, but to include everyone
Do you see the conditions for a far-right force, beyond Vox, to break out?
We Catalans do not have a genetic condition as a society that makes us immune to the extreme right and, therefore, it will depend on the work we do to stop it. And here there is a basic element which is social cohesion and the Catalan language, avoiding ghettos. But in the political sphere it is very important that the right does not do what the traditional right has done in France, for example, assuming a part of the speech, because then, between the original and the copy, the original will always be chosen and fed to the extreme right.
Is the pact closer in Barcelona and for the General State Budgets?
Each institution has its dynamics. The governance of Barcelona is in the hands of the municipal groups. We have the will for there to be General State Budgets and for them to be good for Catalonia, so there will be the will to participate and see if it is possible to reach an agreement. At the negotiation table, we committed to it being this first quarter of the year and we are working to make it happen. But for me the content is more important, we already have many photos. We could already have a small album of the meetings. We must move on to the proposals that are on the table to resolve political conflict. I have one, which is the clarity agreement, we will have to see if the PSOE has one.
We have the will that there be General State Budgets and that they are good for Catalonia
Do you support the PSOE proposal to investigate the covid contracts of all the autonomies, promoted as a result of the ‘Koldo case’?
In the face of corruption, all forcefulness. Regarding our management of the pandemic, we have already been accountable to the Parliament and we did it well. We have already done this work. In any case, first we need to give answers and take measures against this possible case of corruption linked to the former minister. [José Luis] Abandons.
Compared to other times he seems very energetic. Are you there because you already know that you will be the ERC candidate or because of the budgets?
It is the enthusiasm of working for my country from the presidency and, therefore, I have every desire to continue moving forward. There have been fictitious debates that we wanted to make very clear that they did not exist. Oriol Junqueras is a great asset of ERC, he is the president of the party, the leader, and in the future, obviously, too. I am convinced that from an institutional point of view, there will be many opportunities for me to contribute to the history of Catalonia.