The software engineer René Murrell programmed a web app as a sidepreneur: appliedim.de René Murrell/ Gründerszene
On the way home from a job interview – the interviewer should hear what kind of smart, profound answers you can think of! Personal strengths and weaknesses, five-year plans and two clever questions about the company. Everything is there now. But only now.
This is how many people feel after job interviews. Also Rene Murrell. When he was looking for a job, he had “a kind of thought freeze” during the first two interviews, as he says. He just couldn’t think of the right answer. “If I had had more practice, it would certainly have gone better.” And so the Berlin software developer came up with an idea: he programmed an application simulator. To practice interviewing.
He has been working on it since May of this year, as a sidepreneuer, so to speak. In his day job, Murell works as a developer for a large corporation. “I’m the kind of guy who needs the security of a full-time, regular income job,” he says. “But I’m also somewhat hungry for this project and I’m happy to sacrifice a bit of sunlight for it.” Especially in the evenings and at weekends, he built the freely accessible test version ofwerbungsim.de, the MVP, as the programmer says, the “minimum Viable Product”. And I tested that.
Start of the application simulation: Who are you and what do you want here?
On the start page, a large blue button invites you to test. There is a version for registered users and a slimmed down version for unregistered users. Murrell advised me in advance that I should register with an e-mail address (Google or Microsoft account), because only registered users will receive individual feedback from the AI after the end of the conversation.
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In the demo video that Murrell sent, he introduced himself to the chatbot as a programmer, which he really is. Irrationally, I think that the AI is of course quite familiar with such tech jobs – but now I’ll challenge them: I’m applying to be a journalist.
Once registered, there are only two steps left to start the interview. First, enter name and second, “Job Title or Resume”. “For more accurate recognition, upload a cover letter or CV as a PDF file.” That sounds good. Then the AI already has a bit of prior knowledge, just like a recruiter in real life, to whom I send my application with my CV, yes, I think.
Unfortunately, this function has a bug, as I find out. The AI thinks I want to apply for a job as “CV_Nina Anika Klotz.pdf”. When I tell Murrell about it after my test, he nods and laughs: “That’s at the top of the list!” In one of the upcoming versions, the AI should actually be able to read and process the content of the uploaded CV. You should also be able to upload job advertisements here, with the aim of being able to ask very specific questions about this position in this company in the simulated job interview. “The system should know which company it is and – as far as can be seen from their website – also what their values and expectations of employees are,” explains the programmer.
Like (almost) every other video call
After entering the two pieces of information, I come to a page that says: “Press to connect call.” If I do, short tüdeldü, then the picture of “Dennis” appears in a kind of video call ad and a pretty real and A man’s voice that doesn’t sound like a robot at all says: “Hello, Nina Anika Klotz. Thank you for your interest. I’m looking forward to our conversation.”
And now? “Speaking…” is written in a yellow line above the picture of “Dennis”. Who I? I have to admit: Even after three years of almost daily video calls with real people, it still takes a lot for me to speak really loudly to the artificial interviewer “Dennis”. Sick, I’m talking out loud to my computer. “Uh yeah, I’m happy too.”
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René Murrell can relate to the feeling. It can be strange at first to start talking. He’s already working on that too: “Soon with live video” says the app. What is meant, explains the programmer, is that “Dennis” will soon no longer just be a photo, but an AI-generated video of a man asking questions. Murrell thinks that reduces “acwardness,” and I actually think so, too.
As in all job interviews: previous job? Specific knowledge? Strengthen?
“Dennis” takes over the conversation. So I want to apply to be a journalist. “Let me first ask: could you give me an insight into your previous area of activity as a journalist?” Somewhat stubbornly, I give short and rather lousy answers. I’ll stop online journalism, I say. “Could you please tell me about a specific skill or knowledge in the field of online journalism that you are particularly good at and that you have used successfully in your previous work?” Dennis asks.
René Murrell explains how Dennis comes up with his questions: “These are basically cleverly selected, automatically generated prompts for the selected LLM,” says the. The selected Large Language Model, or LLM for short, behind its application simulator is currently ChatGPT. To do this, he wrote down some “application flows” himself, as he says, so he taught the system how an interview usually works. “This gives the AI a common thread for the conversation.” “Dennis” will ask about my salary expectations at the end of the interview and give me the opportunity to ask him questions. Which he then answers. (I brazenly asked about a four-day week and work-outs. Doable, he says.)
AI prematurely gives its own answers
After two or three follow-up questions about my professional skills, the interviewer changes the subject: “Now let’s move on to the problem-solving questions. How would you proceed if you are faced with a tight schedule and still need to finish an outstanding article for an important deadline?” I have to think a little longer, starting with a rambling half-sentence, Dennis interrupts me: “In a situation like this it would be it is important to carefully analyze the schedule and set priorities. I would create a clear plan that would allow all the required tasks to be completed within the given time. I would also work closely with my team and bring in additional resources as needed to complete the standout article on time.”
In fact, it happens a few times that the AI gives itself answers. On the one hand, it makes sense because there are definitely formulations and ideas in it that you can simply remember for a real conversation. Sometimes, however, I feel that the system is a bit hasty. Perhaps it would be better if the user had the option of clicking “Listen to a sample answer”.
I end the call after about 20 minutes with a red hang-up button. My personal feedback appears. I felt really, really bad. Short, unimaginative answers, lots of stuttering. But the AI is polite and diplomatic: “Overall you made a good impression, but there is still room for improvement in presenting your answers and avoiding clichés.” Emphasize skills and experience better”. I think so too.
My conclusion: Helps to get into application momentum
In my opinion, the AI’s feedback on my conversational performance is a bit general. And to give a general conclusion on the test of the application simulator: The MVP of Murrell’s application simulator is like me, I think: There is still room for improvement. But: The solution to the fundamental problem is definitely addressed by the app. Namely that you are not as good in job interviews as you could be if you trained more often. You can train with Dennis. Because even if not all of his questions are really original: I did several runs and none of the conversations went the same way.
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René Murrell’s current goal is to get as much feedback as possible for his MVP in order to be able to expand and improve the app step by step. Does he then want to turn his side hustle into his own startup? “Safe,” he says. As a business model, he could imagine a classic B2C subscription model. About 20 euros per month are planned. “I’d like to do five euros, but my research showed that I should set the price a little higher.”
Of course, he is aware that he cannot retain users forever – but only for as long as they are looking for a job. But that’s OK: “At the moment I’m offering a solution that’s supposed to take away a pain point for people.” And maybe that’s how it’ll work, he says: if you go to the interview well trained, you’ll get the job. That makes you self-confident. And those who are self-confident dare to look for the next good job after two years. And then – ideally – his application training begins again. With “Dennis”. Or until then, a selection of AI recruiters who move and speak like real people in the simulator.